[OH Updates] [Legal] trademark, skdb - and breaking news, the osi logo was *actually* designed by phil torrone in 2001 - 5 years before it was trademarked by OSI.

[Alison Powell]

a comment - the OHANDA process was really designed to indicate the link 
between a logo and a set of shared principles (ie, the 4 freedoms).  Do 
you think that the OSHW logo is or should be doing the same kind of work 
(ie, pointing to a specific shared set of principles, the definition or 
license) or is another logo needed for that purpose?  If the OSHW logo 
is primarily for raising awareness, maybe other related logos or marks 
are needed for other purposes.

Comments, clarifications?

Alison.

On 23/09/11 11:38 AM, phillip torrone wrote:
> this is a giant email with a lot of important things i think...
>
> On Sep 23, 2011, at 10:08 AM, Bruce Perens wrote:
>> The purpose of the logo is to be the tool of a marketing campaign.
>> The objective of the campaign is to promote the idea of Open Hardware to a target audience of outsiders.
>> The target audience knows nothing of Open Hardware or Open Source when they pick up an object and see that logo.
> that's not always correct, limor and i released open-source hardware necklaces and cufflinks (watches and shoes coming soon). hundreds of people have stopped us in public to ask about it. it's in fashion magazines, on tv, will be in a movie soon, lady gaga has one this very moment (her agent contacted us and has one in hand) it's open-source hardware for pop culture. *that's how you market things* that was part of our goal with our oshw wearables.
>
> a logo on a pcb is not the only way we can promote open-source hardware *and* we shouldn't lean on a logo too much hoping for something perfect. in fact, "most people" will never even be looking at a pcb if we do a good job. part of the goal of our wearable projects are to introduce oshw to a target audience of outsiders that know nothing about open-source hardware, i have metrics and data that will show we're doing just that. i will share this publicly this in a series of article as well of course.
>
> arduino did such a good job for oshw, people seek out arduino because of all the amazing things they see, it's not a logo - it what we all *do*. arduino is "open-source hardware" for many people because of the cool things they see.
>
> i am going to be spending a lot of my time as a MAKE editor, popular science contributor and designer at adafruit promoting and marketing the oshw logo/effort, i hope you'll assist me and the community! in 2011 we had a pioneer of oshw on the cover of wired, i want to see oshw everywhere - i want to see everyone who does oshw celebrated. i'm sure you do too.
>
>> What I would like this marketing campaign to do is communicate something important about the open-ness of an object's design as soon as someone in the target audience sees it. I would further like them to remember that logo, and make a connection the next time they see it on an object or promotional material. I would like them to be curious enough to look up what it is online, at some point. Or, if they see a booth or a brochure with that logo, I would like them to walk over, eager to receive information connected with those cool objects that also had the logo.
> you're expecting a logo to do too much, it's a small part of a bigger effort. the oshw logo is more than just electronics, you see that as a weakness, i see that as a strength. we are more than a logo on oshw breakout boards from sparkfun :)
>
>> The best marketing programs work this way.
> can you provide an example of what you think is a best marketing program?
>
> is the linux penguin good? does the gpl have a logo? does the TAPR logo work better on PCBs?
> http://www.tapr.org/images/tapr_logo_blue.gif
>
> i don't know the answers, but would like to know of an example that does, i'm sure everyone else would too.
>
>> Unfortunately, the things necessary for running a great marketing program were not discussed before you were given the mission of voting for that logo. I did send Ayah and Alicia some strong criticism about that.
> i think the current open-source hardware logo is here to stay, i can live with it for sure. bruce, if you had strong objections to it you should have posted on the list and gained support for other considerations. i don't think it's perfect, but it's what a thriving community wants and voted on. why didn't you send your thoughts to the list? why didn't you submit a logo? i did, it didn't win though.
>
> previously you've said "private" and secret ways are the best way to handle things, clearly that didn't work out in this case.
>
> to be clear again, i don't think the current logo is perfect either and i publicly said we might have some issues since it's based off of something else, the osi logo.
>
> BUT
>
> i have some bizarre news for everyone, here is a link to the wayback machine from 2001.
>
> http://web.archive.org/web/20030205061822/http://www.flashenabled.com/mobile/
>
> that's *my* site, from 2001, check out the logo!
>
> :)
>
> http://web.archive.org/web/20030102040619im_/http://insomedia.com/images/felogo.gif
>
> i wrote a book called flash enabled, designed a logo and had a popular website. i was talking about open source and open hardware back in 2001 so i am sure someone who later designed the osi logo had that in their brain. they likely saw it at OSCON... if i recall correctly around that time at OSCON i talked about open source, hardware and the same stuff i always talk it seems - maybe there is a video of it too with my logo since i was promoting my book. it makes sense, someone from OSI was probably there.
>
> the osi logo appears to be based off my logo from 2001, osi's trademarked logo filing is from a later date, 5 years later.
>
> http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4010:slmjcs.3.2
> http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4010:slmjcs.3.1
> Filing Date February 13, 2006
> Filing Date March 5, 2008
> Filing Date March 5, 2008
>
> any way, let's assume someone was inspired by something i did, rad. or let's assume it's a coincidence, that's even cooler. but for me personally, if the OSI *and* oshw are *both* using a logo that i designed in some way, or based it off of - that's is the weirdest coolest cosmic event i can think of!
>
> so if bruce's biggest issue with our oshw logo is the fact that it was made by osi, i think i could make a case that it's likely mine too and i am totally ok with it being used for oshw :)
>
> any way. bruce, can you elaborate more on the following statement?
>
>> Bruce Perens wrote:
>> 2. It's derivative of Open Source Initiative's mark, so we'd need their permission, and they are probably the most disfunctional organization I know of so it's a better idea to stay away from them.
> really? we shouldn't try to work with them? i think we can be professional and diplomatic with anyone to help further our goals. do you have a contact there for us to chat with? i want to know who made that logo!
>
>> It is usual for our community to promote to insiders rather than outsiders, sometimes without realizing that their material has a built-in bias to do that. Our history's full of that. We can do better.
> i would say the open-source hardware movement is doing fantastic *because* we've celebrated and brought in outsiders, we have more diversity and different groups than any other community i know of that does hardware. i will be specific since i like to be specific, our leaders are women, this is a wonderful and positive thing and unlike most/all other tech communities!
>
> lastly bruce, you said the logo wasn't good for pcbs, that's not correct...
>
>> Bruce Perens wrote:
>> 4. It's not position-independent. It has a right-side-up, which isn't really best for use on PCBs.
> as limor just said to me again "so what?" so is text. this doesn't matter, the top engineers in oshw do not think this matter either, i asked them :)  if you thought this was a concern you should have posted to the lists during the very active discussions and gained support.
>
> since you won't say anything *good* about the logo, i will!
>
> since it's vector based, it's trivial to add to any PCB, a more complicated logo would require a bitmap import which not all CAD tools have. constantly telling us we're not good enough, made mistakes or are "poseurs" will not get move us towards solutions together :)  if you make a better logo and gain support, i will be the first to suggest we use it.
>
> since i brought up things from the previous topic(s) --- steve the president of TAPR is now on this list folks! i encouraged him to introduce himself - he actually called nate at sparkfun yesterday and steve sounds like an amazing guy!
>
> bruce you will not see this note since you said you added me to "spam", this is for everyone else :)
>
> cheers,
> pt
>
>
>
> est. 2001 :)
>
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